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Talk:Mark Meltzer
What this Article Needs (October 16) *a massive amount of updating *greater detail on the stages of Mark's investigation *greater detail on how Mark has interacted with his contacts *formatting similar to that found on the Orrin Oscar Lutwidge page with sections for different periods of Mark's investigation. *information about, and links to, his various writings *Hyperlink, hyperlink, hyperlink! Always add hyperlinks to your updates. *someone who will commit to keeping this page updated and accurate (Please put a dash through each item on this list as it is completed. If you want to commit to looking after this page please add a link to your user page.)--Gardimuer 20:58, October 16, 2009 (UTC) Character Info Box I have created a Template:SITS Charinfobox and added it to this page. If you have suggestions about how this infobox should look, or what information it should contain, please tell me about it. I am new to creating templates, and I would welcome the feedback of anyone with more experience.--Gardimuer 01:50, October 22, 2009 (UTC) Epstein, Codex and I have talked about really going to town over Christmas break on bringing the Mark Meltzer page up to date. We plan to do a complete overhaul.--KyburzCOR 17:58, December 22, 2009 (UTC) Fact Checks I am curious, is there a source for the information that his fist name is "Markus Gregory Meltzer"? Also, the document from Tollevue that gives his age may look like a 46 or a 40... but it definitely does not look like a 49. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 00:55, December 22, 2009 (UTC) Meltzer's Picture Through the "First 9 minutes of gameplay" youtube link we see Mr. Meltzer's picture during an audio message. Should it be added to this page?Binoculars 01:27, December 23, 2009 (UTC) I just saw that and I say we doDelta daddie 20:19, December 23, 2009 (UTC) I would say that we shouldn't since it is a spoiler to people following the site and unofficial, leaked info. We could hide it behind a collapsible table along with the rest of the leaked info though.--KyburzCOR 20:35, December 23, 2009 (UTC) Regardless of what will be done, something needs to be set in stone, and soon. This page keeps getting the leaked spoilers added and taken away. I'd say it should be hidden if it absolutely must be included. I was devastated when I discovered it so unofficially. :( A collapsible table sounds like the way to go. --Epstein CoR 20:40, December 23, 2009 (UTC)Epstein CoR Aside from the spoiler danger, there's also the quality of the photo to keep in mind. --I pull the Great Chain, with a drill in one hand, and blood on the other. 21:46, December 23, 2009 (UTC) What's wrong with posting a spoiler? Tons of articles on this site contain spoilers. That's why that large warning usually appears at the top of the screen. --Ant423 21:50, December 23, 2009 (UTC)Ant423 There is a significant qualitative difference between a normal spoiler and spoiler that has leaked for a game that isn't even out yet. --KyburzCOR 22:03, December 23, 2009 (UTC) I must say, I agree with Kyburz. If an individual has had a chance to read through a book, watch a movie, or even play a game, then accidentally finding the ending in some article is his\her problem. However, if say the movie/book/game is still in the making and has yet to be released, then finding the ending in an article would be the fault of the writer. Also, if the producer of the product doesn't want certain information about the product to be know prior to its release, then the writer of the spoiler would be doing something against the will of the producer. If the ending to a game is released before the game comes out, one might say, "Oh, I don't need to play this, cuz I already know the ending." Now I know there is a big difference between a small spoiler and a major spoiler. But the same guidelines should apply. 2K doesn't want this information released, as evident by the fact that they removed the video. If we DO place the spoilers we should use hide-able columns to prevent wandering eyes. EDlTʘR •taIk• 22:15, December 23, 2009 (UTC) :Good news. I have created a BioShock Wiki:Spoiler Policy page. If you have any further complaints or suggestions, I suggest you make them on that article's discussion page. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 23:17, December 23, 2009 (UTC) Regarding this picture, it should be noted on the article that the fact that his portrait is in color is likely a reference to the fact that he is from the outside world (where color photographs had been invented at the time). I think that the reason that his picture is color is his picture would be more recent and would be from a color camera while everyone else has older pictures because they were in rapture for the invention of surface pictures Totemtrouser 05:33, February 15, 2010 (UTC)totemtrouserTotemtrouser 05:33, February 15, 2010 (UTC) Some things Epstein here. This article is looking MUCH better. I'm glad to have been part of the phase writeups! As of Late December/early January, me and Codex just need to finish off the 1st half of phase 2 and I think Mark's page will look pretty good! I did want to ask about the last 2 or so paragraphs in phase 1. I was thinking about them earlier - perhaps that should introduce phase 2 instead? We had no clue Mark's daughter was taken by phase 1, and though everything currently checks out chronologically, the Big Sister tracking Mark and taking Cindy was what has driven Mark to come this far. So what do you think; should the stuff about Mark spending his vacation tracking the BS and having his daughter taken should be in phase 1 or 2? Other than that, looking good! I'm glad the spoiler dispute was settled; the collapsible table was a good choice.--Epstein CoR 05:58, January 1, 2010 (UTC)Epstein CoR Sorry to post again, but I wanted people to know where this page currently stands, as I said, it's looking good. With the writeup all I have to do now is fill in the stuff between Mark's discovery of the puzzle box to his second trip to Tollevue. It's actually not as bad as I thought it would be. Looking at the site's archived items combined with the summary here on the wiki, it hasn't actually been too difficult at all! You just need time and I have snippets of it here and there. :) Hope you guys are satisfied with what Codex and I have done to bring Mark's page out of oblivion. Once the writeups are done we may need to collapse them all or something, because it is going to be WAY longer than it currently is. And it's already pretty dang long. --Epstein CoR 01:09, January 5, 2010 (UTC)Epstein CoR :I added smaller section headings to the phases. If anyone can think of better heading names, feel free to change them as you see fit. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 06:46, January 27, 2010 (UTC) Collapsible Tables for SITS info? Well I suggest all the info from something in the sea can be hidden on the page showing only a brief summary of it to the viewers. Any thoughts? 06:25, January 18, 2010 (UTC)MeLovGamng :I disagree. All of the SITS information is canon and is important to the character. I don't think there is any reason for it to be hidden. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 08:11, January 18, 2010 (UTC) ::I was thinking something along the lines of it being collapsible, since the page is REALLY long, and is certainly not done yet. Do we just do a table?Epstein CoR 23:14, January 18, 2010 (UTC)Epstein CoR :::I don't think long pages is a good enough reason to put sections in collapsible templates. Take a gander at some pages on Wookieepedia: Luke Skywalker. The length of this page is really nothing to worry about. Heck, Andrew Ryan's page is about the same length as this one. If you are concerned about this page being long, consider breaking up some sections under smaller headings (like the Orrin Oscar Lutwidge page.) ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 23:54, January 18, 2010 (UTC) ::::I have to agree with Gardimuer here Swami. I don't think that it needs to be collapsed. Yes, it is a lot of information, but can you honestly go through it and pick out two or three lines that show what the whole segment is about? Its not exactly like it is too much of a read, maybe only fifteen minutes or so. If someone knows the general chronology of SitS they can find Mark's involvement and whatever info they need to know. --Codex CoR 02:46, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Updates Since Bioshock 2 has been released, shouldn't we unlock the page now? I found some information on Meltzer's fate and would like to put it on soon. Mark managed to find Cindy, but at a terrible price- Lamb captured him and gave him a choice- be executed at once or become Cindy's new Big Daddy. It is heavily implied he chose the latter. To whoever posted the above message Meltzer is the final Big Daddy in Fontaine Futuristics as listening to an audio diary found on a Rumbler's corpse after you kill it renames the Rumbler Mark Meltzer. Really? I didn't notice that. I'll also remember to sign my posts next time! Thank you.Biggerdaddy 04:27, February 10, 2010 (UTC) I feel that his Bioshock 2 section needs to be expanded, it's fairly short. Bluevane 13:24, February 11, 2010 (UTC) I think his portrait resembles Joe Friday from Dragnet, and it would figure given the overall theme of SitS. Missing links I used to follow every single detail at "There's Something In The Sea." Every single item Mark received from Rapture which at that time I used to believe that Cindy was the one sending those messages urging him to find her. I don't mean the complicated collectibles, but those childish doodles he found from time to time. So, if all that was true, how come didn't Cindy recognize her father when he found her? If not, who did then? And why? Kelzow20 01:29, February 13, 2010 (UTC) : Edit: Jordan Thomas already explained this point. "Well, she'll cry over him if you remain at a distance, but her kinship with Eleanor causes her to fall under Delta's spell, calling him "Daddy" instead of Mr. Bubbles, et cetera. If there had been more time it'd have been nice to give her a unique line, but sadly it wasn't a priority when set against larger concerns. As far as a Big Sister ferrying a message for her, well, they share a kinship with the Little Ones, moreso than with anyone else. Lamb's just the Mean Boss Mommy. It was more of a SiTS idea, but it's not totally outside the bounds of canon, so we let it through." '''Jordan Thomas' : This also confirms that the girl helping Eleanor resurrecting Delta and telling him that Eleanor has missed him is in fact Cindy. Kelzow20 04:46, February 14, 2010 (UTC) Saving Mark Metzler There's a way to "save" Mark Metzler in Bioshock 2 (taking the Little Sister from him without having to kill him) video : The whole point is Mark Meltzer is doomed for life. It doesn't matter if you kill him or just walk away. His journey ends (and yes it doesn't end well) and he's done. //Kelzow20 04:42, February 14, 2010 (UTC) Scrapped Idea for meeting normal Meltzer? Did anybody else notice that when you are just about to walk into the carousel room in dionnysus park you hear Mark yell "stay back she's my little girl!",and a Big Sister scream and gunshots,(not necessarlily in that order) because I thought that might have been a scrapped idea where you meet him.Anybody hear that noise? 'Delta daddie 05:29, February 27, 2010 (UTC)' :That event was meant to give you a sense that you and him were on a close trail. If you listen to the audio diary in the carousel, at the end of it, you hear him talking just as he did before the door opened. It's to say you walked in on him recording that. Give you a real sense of him. But to meet him could break a lot of... well, can't think of a word, but it wouldn't work out. :There's a removed audio diary about that carousel on Cult of Rapture. That diary feels like it was meant to be in the carousel, but was removed since it was quite trivial and they needed spots for Mark Meltzer audio diaries, instead. Which, as been stated, he was put into the game late in development, so they probably simply switched out diaries for his (mostly). '~'''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę'' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ talk }]]'' 15:00, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Location Where do you find him in Fontaine Futuristics? - Flood12345 15:59, February 27, 2010 (UTC) :When you enter the room with a dead Alpha Series on the ground, surrounded by two Splicers by a Ammo Bandito, the next door ahead has a Rumbler walking around. If you kill the Rumbler, the text that comes on your HUD when you aim at the corpse will say "Mark Meltzer" instead of "Rumbler." There is an audio diary on the corpse of Mark Meltzer's conversation with Sofia Lamb as he was captured, accepting to be turned into a Big Daddy as long as he could be with Cindy. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 16:05, February 27, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh, thanks - Flood12345 16:21, February 27, 2010 (UTC) Should we put a picture of him as a rumbler on this page?Bioshock123 01:28, March 16, 2010 (UTC) :Sure. But if you do, please put it in the BioShock 2 section, not at the top. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 20:43, March 16, 2010 (UTC) Well A quote from Meltzer would be pretty, pretty, pretty good, since we followed him for months in "There's Something in the Sea", and out of all the audio diary only-characters he's the most prominent one, besides being the only one alive to record them, by each diary you feel like you're closing on his trail more and more, in Dionysus Park the only thing standing between Delta and him is a locked door before a Big Sister takes him and finally you fight him up and close as a Rumbler in Fontaine Futuristics. I tried to add one but it got deleted fast. (KingShodo 02:07, April 20, 2010 (UTC)) :You were quoting him arriving in Rapture RIGHT on top of the page. That's major spoilers to people who do not yet know he is featured in the game. Sure, there's "BioShock 2" in his Charinfobox, but that doesn't say he made it exactly and all. You can find a better quote which does not reveal any specifics of his journey like that? :You're also manually making quotes instead of using the quote template, which I assume is because you're using Rich Text Editor and can't use the quote template there. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 02:17, April 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Maybe you can find a more appropriate quote from SitS documents, like these for exemple : ::"I can't sleep anymore. I lie wake, haunted by the watchfull eyes of those poor lost girls... waiting for us to find them." ::or "Constantly amazes me how people can see the EVIDENCE but not the truth." Pauolo 09:32, April 20, 2010 (UTC) :::Those both look good. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 19:57, April 20, 2010 (UTC) Obsession: Just think, instead of the storyline of Mark's obsession with following those Kidnappings, he took up another hobby - say Model Trains, he would not have had a trip to the loonie bin, not destroyed his marriage, not had his child kidnapped by a freak in a diving suit and then turned into a "little ghoul" mutant, not been changed to a cyborg slave to later be killed by us in a disfunctional undersea city... Theres a lesson in that for all of us.... Testxyz (talk) 10:19, January 3, 2014 (UTC) Photo inspiration Mark Meltzer's photo kinda looks like Humphrey Bogart to me, but I wouldn't know which specific photo was used by the developers as source. Pauolo (talk) 13:10, May 4, 2019 (UTC)